This is the generation that will abolish abortion

Apathy Excuse #12 – Saving Babies From Abortion Puts Them In Danger Of Going To Hell (this is a real excuse people use)

I got this e-mail today from a person who has spent the past few weeks telling me that I will burn in hell for being Catholic, now he is making up excuses as to why pro-life action is worthless. I have heard a lot of excuses over the years, but this has to be the most asinine.

He first e-mailed me today to warn me about going to hell, then a few hours later I got this e-mail from him

I do love you, Bryan. I really do. There is no way I would ever write you, much less pray for you, if I didn’t. And what you are trying to do is very noble. It is just that in recent weeks I have come to a very important conclusion not only about StandTrue, but about many charities and ‘ministries’ in the world.

Let us assume for a moment that eventually through what you and others like you are doing, abortion is outlawed. The murders have stopped and every abortion mill in the world is shutdown.

And then what? What have you accomplished? You have allowed babies that would otherwise die to be born. Great! And…? What happens now?

Really? What have we accomplished, really? I am not sure if you really mean that; do you not see the benefit in saving the lives of thousands of babies who are being murdered every day? Should we not have intervened in WW2 and rescued the Jews who were being slaughtered? What about the Word of God that tells us in Proverbs 24:10 If you faint in the day of adversity, Your strength is small. 11 Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. 12 If you say, “Surely we did not know this,” Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?

He writes further:

What you have accomplished is only momentary. It will only last so long as this world lasts. And that is not a very long time in the scope of eternity. If all you do is save babies from being aborted, than you have accomplished nothing. In fact, I would go so far as to say you may make it even worse for them. If those children are killed within the womb, they will be welcomed with open arms into Heaven. If they are born, there is the chance that they will reject God their entire life and die and go to hell. Kind of sobering when you put it in that light.

Are you actually saying that saving a person from being murdered is worse then letting them be murdered because they might not be saved? I really am having a hard tome believing that any one would actually believe this, but because I have heard this excuse before I am not totally shocked. What is sobering is the fact that you would be so heartless as to want to allow babies to be ripped limb from limb just to make sure they go to heaven. Using your logic then we should be killing more babies, any baby conceived to a non-Christian family should be killed to make sure they are not raised by those heathens. This is the kind of logic that Margaret Sanger the founder of Planned Parenthood preached, it is vile and hateful.

He also said:

You see, Bryan, I see now that all you and many other pro-life ministries are doing is trying to make a better world for people to go to hell from. Saving unborn children will accomplish nothing if that is all you do.

That is what I am trying to get you to understand. Your goals need to become more eternity minded or nothing you do will matter for anything.

What we are trying to do is save peoples lives as well as give them the hope of Christ. The name of our ministry is Stand True – Christ Centered Pro-life, we have the Gospel of Christ as the center of our message.

I would say point out that even if we were not a “Christian” organization, the work we do would not be in vain. Is the work of a firefighter done in vain? Is the work of a policeman done in vain? Is the work of the doctors saving infants in the hospital done in vain? All of these are people who save lives, is that useless because they are not more “eternity minded”?

To accuse us of making the world a better place for people to go to hell is outright insane. We are trying to make the world a better place by saving the lives of innocent babies who are being slaughtered by the thousands.

Just to give the rest of the readers of this a little prospective, this person used to be a moderator on this blog and even financially support the ministry. One day he got very angry about me posting about Lent because in his words, that was “a Catholic” term and we should not be promoting it. This was right before me converting to Catholicism, an event that made him snap.

Following my conversion and up to this morning I have received many hateful messaged from him, here are a few of the choice quotes I have received.

You actually think Paul was Catholic? That is idiotic! He was a Messianic Jew. He followed the traditions of the Jewish people but had still accepted Christ as his savior….And Catholics are against God. And I do not hate anyone. If I did, I would not be so adamant about this. If I hated you, I would not say a word and let you burn in hell.

Just thought you would like to know that prayers are going up for you. Prayers that you will realize your mistakes. And prayers that God will not bless your ministry until you

This person is obviously full of rage and hatred for the Catholic Church, probably instilled in him by some pastor along the way who hates Catholics. He went from being a friend and supported of the ministry to someone who just wants to let me know I will burn in hell overnight.

While it is obvious why this particular person has can believe such outrageous things about pro-life work, this is not isolated to him. I have heard this argument time after time from people who just do not want to get involved with pro-life work. It is nothing more that an excuse for people’s apathy, people who would rather not stand up and be a voice for those who have none. I hope for their sake if they end up in a life or death situation one day, that those around them will not be so apathetic.

My prayers are with him, that God will open his heart and eyes.

For Christ I stand,
Bryan Kemper

53 Comments

  1. LucyL
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I used to think like this. Now that I have been blessed with holy vision, it seems assisnine, but when the scales of deceite, comfort, convenience and lies were over my eyes, I actually felt this way. The reason I felt this way was because I had to justify the murder of my own unborn child. The lies of the devil are deep rooted in emotion and sin. It’s a horrible place to be. This young man needs prayer, deep, meditative prayer to take him from the claws of the evil one and into the merciful arms of our Lord Jesus Christ. AMEN

  2. April
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    The person who mailed those letters is clearly not eternity minded either. For if he was, he would realize that God see’s into the depths of our hearts and he alone is our judge. I personally do not agree with the doctrine preached in the Catholic church, but can I dictate who will enter the kingdom? No. Only God is capable of that. I do not believe that I will be the only one in heaven nor do I believe that only my congregation will see it’s pearly gates. If it were doctrine that gave us entrance into the kingdom alone, we would not have needed Jesus. It’s by faith alone that we are saved. To break apart the church over differences of opinion is wrong and Jesus preached on the very subject! The Bible is clear on standing murder/standing for truth and most of all loving one another. Faith without works is dead….. I would suggest to this young man, let God decide who enters Heaven/Hell and learn to love and lead by example. God is clear about hands that shed innocent blood, so as for abortion, we are called to stand for justice/truth and life. 🙂

  3. Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    I have heard this excuse, too. It is, as you say, asinine. Does not take into account the sovereignty of God and election.

  4. JoAnna
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

    By that logic, all babies should be aborted, because we are ALL in danger of going to hell.

  5. David
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    Well, the answer to that is…eternity. By allowing God to be God and to do His will, we are saving our own souls. And don’t ever let someone tell you that you’re going to hell for obeying Jesus and being in His church. Of course Paul was a Catholic, even if he didn’t call himself such. He was a Christian, and the Christian Church at the time was united.

    If you need help defending your faith, let me know, and thanks for defending the unborn. God Bless, and Welcome Home.

  6. Posted April 19, 2011 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    Then why would God want any of us to be born? Why doesn’t He just take us all to Heaven and skip the stuff left to chance? For one thing, so we have the free will to choose Him or not. That is HIS choice to allow us that freedom, not ours. Secondly, there is no place in the Bible where it says children automatically go to Heaven. I’d like to think that they do, but God specifically says we are born with a sin nature and ALL have fallen short of His glory. The only way to Him is through His Son, Jesus Christ. There are no guarantees that the babies who are aborted go to Heaven. Jesus loved children especially, so my hope is that they do, but I have heard and believe that God left that out of the Bible so that we wouldn’t think things like this man does. That is HIS judgement to make, not ours!

  7. Lauren Walker
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    I think this person might be clinically insane. I’m sorry…the way they talked just seemed very off to me. That’s like saying we should kill the kids at the playground so they can go to Heaven! What?!?

  8. Psychdoc
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    One question, Bryan. Why do you continue to give this person space on your blog? We all know by now that he is “hell-bent.” (couldn’t help the pun 😉

    Concerning the excuses. . .we really might go to hell on our ‘buts.’

  9. Caleb
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Actually, I have never been to a church in which a pastor spoke even a single word about Catholics. At least not to me. Guesses and conjucture(sp?) really do not become you, Bryan. Stick to the facts.

    I do not hate anyone. I would say a better word for what I feel about the Catholics is pity. They believe that they are right with God and they are not. Feel the same when I think of the Jews of today. So many people have been poisoned by their beliefs that it makes me sick to think about it. Hard to imagine that all those Jews that were burned in those ovens are still burning today. I don’t get it. It does not seem even remotely fair to me. But I am not God.

    And read the E-mail again, Bryan. I never have and never will say that you should stop your pro-life ministry. I was simply telling you that if that is all you do and you never lead even one person to Chist, than you have failed and nothing you do will be remembered. I apply the same to myself. Only what I do that has eternal cosequences matters. I admit, that isn’t much at this point. But I understand that you need to deal with someone’s spiritual well just as much as their physical well being. If you ignore either, than anything you do in the scope of eternity will fail. You need to understand that, Bryan – and everyone else too.

    • Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

      Just so everyone knows, Caleb is the person who wrote this letter to me and has continuously told me I am not following God, I don’t believe the bible and that I am burning in hell.

      And he say that is not hate.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

        Ever read Jude 1:20-13? Give it a look.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

        23*

    • David
      Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

      Caleb,
      Leading someone away from having an abortion is, in many cases, leading them to Christ.
      Regarding Catholicism, show me (us) how Catholicism is anti-Christian and why you ‘have pity’ for Catholics. We know that God is not divided, that there is one truth, and that Jesus gave us that truth. He created one Church, which is the Catholic Church, and promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. And he promised that the Holy Spirit would keep His Church free from straying down the wrong path. That men who are Catholic have made mistakes is not an issue. Men can,do, and will make mistakes. But when it comes to our faith, we are protected from error in the person of the Popes and bishops in communion with their pope.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

        One example of many is that you believe Mary was sinless. And the Bible clearly says “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”(Romans 3:23) So right there you have been led astray in your beliefs. Either that, or the Bible is wrong. In which case we have no clue as to what has and what has not been corrupted in the Bible. In which case, God really isn’t God and nothing we do matter because when we die we are simply dead.

        As for why I pity you, because you have been lied to your entire life and you cannot even see it. False docterine surrounds you and you don’t even realize it.

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        Caleb, what does “full of grace” mean to you? The Bible is very plain. If someone gives you the title “Full of Grace”, it means that you have always been, are now, and always will be, full of grace. This was God’s gift to her for her participation in salvation history.

        You know that we Catholics don’t confine ourselves to the written word of God. Why? Because Christ never wrote a word. He taught through oral means. John’s gospel tells us that if all His deeds were written down, all the books in the world could not hold it all. We know that Christ made for his apostles to have successors, seen in Acts of the Apostles, and in Timothy, we see where oral tradition (Sacred Tradition, the teachings of the apostles) and Apostolic Succession come from.
        Mary’s gift came from God, not through anything she did or merited. Except she did say “Fiat” to God’s plan.
        I have not been lied to my entire life, I wasn’t a Catholic more than 5 years ago. But I have seen the truth of Catholicism.
        Like I said, show me where the Bible approves of denominationism.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

        ‘All have sinned.’ Closest translation we have to the word all? All.

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        Caleb, where do you think the Bible came from? Did it just drop out of the sky? Who decided what writings were going to be in it? *Hint* Begins with a C. Ends with a c. has an atholi in the middle.

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

        So I guess you believe that Paul is saying that Jesus sinned?

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

        God wrote the Bible. He used many believers to do it. Cannot remember off the top of my head who wrote most of the Ol Testament, but Matthew(a Jew) wrote Matthew. Mark(a Jew) wrote Mark. Luke(a Greek Jew) wrote Luke. John(a Jew) wrote John. Acts was written by afformentioned Luke. Most of the New Testament was written by Peter(a Jew).

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

        Consider a child below the age of reason. By definition he can’t sin, since sinning requires the ability to reason and the ability to intend to sin. This is indicated by Paul later in the letter to the Romans when he speaks of the time when Jacob and Esau were unborn babies as a time when they “had done nothing either good or bad” (Rom. 9:11).

        We also know of another very prominent exception to the rule: Jesus (Heb. 4:15). So if Paul’s statement in Romans 3 includes an exception for the New Adam (Jesus), one may argue that an exception for the New Eve (Mary) can also be made.

        Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out). If not that, then it would mean that everyone, without exception, is subject to original sin, which is true for a young child, for the unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due to be subject to it, was preserved by God from it and its stain.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

        Paul* LOL! Don’t what I was thinking writing Peter. Most have had Simon Peter on the brain. Been studying a lot about him as of late.

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

        Actually, the Catholic Church decided which writings belonged in the New Covenant, and also which writings belonged in the Old Covenant. At the time, Jews didn’t have a coherent list of approved writings. Catholics gave the Bible whole to the world.

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

        Or it could mean that everyone is a sinner and is tainted by orginal sin. That is what the Bible says. That is what is written. So is it that the Bible recorded something incorrectly – which, according to what you believe, would be the Catholics fault and put you at odds with the Lord – or is it that what you believe is wrong – which would also put you at odds with the Lord? Either way you slice it, you come up on the losing end.

  10. JD
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Caleb- I don’t want your pity. For God’s sake, don’t pity me. But I want some insight from you. First there was Jesus, then the Apostles, and…1500 years of darkness, popery, and ant-Christianity, and then we are all saved by the Reformation? Is that right? I just want to get the timeline down. Cause I’d hate to think that I’m going to share space in heaven with people like Augustine (a Catholic bishop) or Francis of Assisi (a Catholic deacon), or God-forbid, Mary, the Mother of Jesus. I really just am not comfortable rubbing elbows with that crowd– They think they’re all right with God, and they’re not.

    • Posted April 27, 2011 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

      **just quietly whispering here**: Be very careful lumping ancient Catholics in with modern-day Catholics. Augustine would renounce today’s Catholic church. His writings stand in direct opposition to the modern Catholic church’s teachings.

      • Posted May 2, 2011 at 10:13 am | Permalink

        Actually, Rachel, that’s false. Of all current Christian churches, the Catholic Church is the only one that Augustine would recognize.

      • Posted May 3, 2011 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

        Joanna…???? Augustine stood very strongly against Pelagius. The Catholic church does not – in fact, she wholeheartedly embraces semi-Pelagian thought. The Council of Trent, which helped moved Catholicism away from orthodox teaching, was 1200 years after Augustine and anathematized many of his teachings.

      • JoAnna
        Posted May 3, 2011 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

        Rachel, you have been gravely misinformed. The Church has always spoken against Plegianism. See here:

        http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9803eaw.asp

  11. JD
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

    Hey Brian, remember when Corrie Ten Boom saved all those Jews from Hitler? Man, what a time-wasting loser.

    Remember Martin Luther King Jr and all that talk about civil rights? What an idiot that guy was.

    Those things didn’t have eternal consequences. If only Jesus had said something like this: “whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.” Alas, he didn’t.

    • Caleb
      Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

      Jesus also told those ‘believers’ who did do such things “Go away from me! I never knew you!”

  12. Mickey
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Does this person realize that if a person has an abortion they are killing a child of god regardless of religion and unless they repented they would be going to hell themselves???
    God I pray u will open up this persons eyes and show them the truth.

  13. JoAnna
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

    As for why I pity you, because you have been lied to your entire life and you cannot even see it. False docterine surrounds you and you don’t even realize it.

    Oh, the irony…

    • Caleb
      Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      Bible says what the Bible says. It is enerrorent. I believe exactly what the Bible says and the Bible has no lies. So no, I do not believe lies.

      • David
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

        So tell me, Caleb, what does John Chapter 6 say? It says that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood to have eternal life. Do you believe Jesus when he says that?

      • Caleb
        Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        Yep.

  14. Caleb
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

    Okay. I really need to stop. Pearls before swine. No more comments on this page, but I will continue to pray for you(all of you). God bless and I hope you all realize the truth soon!

    • Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      Caleb by calling us swine and referring to your hate as Pearls shows us a lot about your character.

    • Tyler D.
      Posted April 19, 2011 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      I’m not really sure why, but I feel led to reply to this. I don’t know anyone involved personally, so take it for what it’s worth as an innocent bystander. Hopefully someone can get some good out of this reply.

      First off, I’ll respond to the rift between Bryan/Caleb. As far as the argument that stopping all abortions would only lead to more people going to hell, I’ll argue against that with simple math. If a mother has an abortion and doesn’t repent of it, isn’t that mother definitely going to hell? If so, and nobody ever fights to show them the way to salvation, then the “best” result is that half will go to hell (the mothers) and half to heaven (the unborn). On the other hand, if we work with those who have had abortions and some are saved, the percentage who presumably *could* go to heaven rises. All of the mothers will have a chance if they repent as a result of ministries such as this, as will all of those saved from abortion. That would put the *possible* percentage up to 100%. Even if you ignore all the other reasons to fight against abortion, that seems like a sufficient enough one there.

      This seems to go to the deeper issue of what our priorities as Christians should be: evangelism or social action. A close study of the Bible certainly calls for both to an extent. Matthew 28:19-20 certainly places a priority on evangelism. But if we look at Jesus’ actions, there are certainly places where Jesus focuses primarily and initially on the person’s felt needs. If a person was sick, He healed them (even if that meant they would go on to have kids, who perhaps weren’t saved, for what it’s worth).

      While evangelism may be the leading partner (in that our relationship with God is higher than our physical needs), that doesn’t mean that social action of any kind is worthless. Your same reasoning could argue that we shouldn’t feed the poor, because that way they will all die and not have more kids who could go to hell. That’s just plain silly.

      By my estimation, Stand True seems to have a good mix of the two approaches. They present the gospel as part of their arguments, but also focus on the needs of those they reach out to (who may have had or are thinking about having an abortion).

      All that being said, while I will say I have some qualms with some of the doctrine of the Catholic Church, I certainly won’t go so far as to say that those who are inside/outside of it are lost. To say that everyone on one side or the other is lost is to deny God’s grace and power. Jesus said that, “where two or three have gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst” (Matt. 18:20). Saying that the Catholic church is apostate would be ignoring 1,500 years of history, as others have noted.

      And lastly, take a look at Matthew 24:14: “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.” The words translated as all nations are “panta ta ethne,” which more accurately translates to all people groups (see ‘Let the Nations Be Glad’ by John Piper). Since we know this must happen before Christ returns, and we are a far cry from having a Catholic church among every unique people group in the world (of which there are 10,000-20,000, depending on the estimate), I’ll go out on a limb and assume Christ can save those who have heard the gospel and believed but don’t have a chance to join the Catholic church.

      • Nicole
        Posted April 24, 2011 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

        Thank you, Tyler, for eloquently saying what I was thinking. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord. Not by being Catholic or protestant. And Christ clearly mandates that we work diligently at both social justice (such as the pro-life movement) and evangelism.

        And to Caleb, even if your concerns about Catholic faith were justified, show me where in the Bible Jesus taught us to win hearts and minds through anger, insults, and threats of damnation. We are to speak the truth in love. Next time you want to reach someone with the truth, carefully examine your heart first to see if it is clouded by selfish emotions and ulterior motives. First remove the plank from your own eye so that you can see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

        For the cause of life, and most importantly for the cause of Christ crucified, may the Holy Spirit guide us in grace, mercy and love.

  15. Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    Caleb lets look at the context and rest of the verse you are trying to quote:

    9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:
    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
    11 there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
    12 All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.”[b]
    13 “Their throats are open graves;
    their tongues practice deceit.”[c]
    “The poison of vipers is on their lips.”[d]
    14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”[e]
    15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
    16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
    17 and the way of peace they do not know.”[f]
    18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”[g]

    It also says there is no one that does good, no not one. So was Paul saying that that time there was not a person on earth that has done good?

    Caleb lets look at the context and rest of the verse you are trying to quote:
    Was he also saying no one seeks God?

    Was he saying that everyones feet are swift to shed blood?
    feet are swift to shed blood;

    Was he saying that no one has the fear of God before their eyes.

    Did Paul mean that Jesus sinned?

    Caleb Mary was saved by the blood of Jesus, she was made pure by Him before she was conceived to make her a pure vessel to give birth to God.

  16. JD
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    So Caleb, we read Scripture and we come to different conclusions. Because my conclusions are wrong, I’m going to hell. Since you don’t believe you’re going to hell, you must believe that when you read the Bible, and draw conclusions, you do so correctly. If you were wrong, you’d go to Hell. So your reading must be…infallible.

    But what a minute. Isn’t that what you think the Pope says. That he reads Scripture infallibly? And isn’t he going to hell for that. Which means what for you Caleb?

    Here’s the thing. The Pope does believe that in some circumstances, the Church reads Scripture infallibly. But if you don’t agree with the Church, the Pope thinks, it doesn’t mean you’re going to hell, it means you’re mistaken. And the Pope isn’t condemning you for your mistakes. Couldn’t you give him the same courtesy? Wouldnt we be a LOT better off, even when we discuss theology, if we let God decide whose salvation is in jeopardy? That’s what I try to do. I hope I don’t end up in hell for it.

  17. Beth
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    To Caleb,
    If you would like to learn more about the Catholic Faith and what we believe, you may want to start with the early Church Fathers. Great place to start! And then, the Catechism of the Catholic Church. If you can just read and pray to understand rather than to attack, you will see that the things you argue against the most may not be what we actually believe! And through your research, also try to find out where the Bible came from. I am also a convert to the Catholic Faith (11 years ago on Good Friday)…and I discerned all of it for about 2 years before I received the Sacraments. Just remember, that you can’t argue against something unless you actually know what that something is. And don’t base it on things that others have told you because then you get their bias. Do your own research! You’ll be richly blessed for your efforts! 🙂

  18. Katlyn
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    I think this is two separate arguements.

    First argument: The bible says we should stand up for those who are who are oppressed. “Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows.” -Isaiah 1:17 That means we need to defend these tiny humans. We need to protect them. We cant just sit by while a genocide is happening. It is wrong.

    Second argument: According to the bible and history Paul was a Messianic Jew. Denominations mean absolutely nothing if you believe in the Bible. It is like when John had followers and they said why does Jesus have more followers than him. He said it has nothing to do with him but everything to do with Christ. Do I agree with being catholic? nope because it doesnt match with the bible but I wont put down those who are, especially if they are true believers. We can argue over technicalities all we want but as long as you follow Christ and nothing but Christ then it doesnt matter.

  19. Katlyn
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    oh and I forgot to post this verse too:
    “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; ensure justice for those being crushed. Yes, speak up for the poor and helpless, and see that they get justice.”
    -Proverbs 31:8-9
    oops 🙂

  20. David
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

    Sounds like Gnosticism to me.

  21. Kevin Williams
    Posted April 19, 2011 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

    I sense that the Holy Spirit is grieved by some of the denominational “We are the ones who got it right and you got it wrong” bickering that is going on here. We ALL have to “examine OURSELVES whether we be in the faith” 2 Cor. 13:5 and “Work out YOUR OWN salvation with fear and trembling” If ANYONE is saved from the wrath to come it is through the Grace of God, the work accomplished by Jesus who is the Christ and by the continuing work of the Holy Spirit. I dont believe there are such distinctions in the Kingdom of God as Protestant or Catholic, Calvinist, Armenian or Swahili but if we obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ, have repentance toward God, and know and are known of Him.
    John Newton, author of “Amazing Grace” had a much humbler and healthier approach to viewing his salvation when he said: “If I ever make it to heaven I expect to find three great wonders there. First, to see some there I didnt expect to see there. Second, to not see some there I expected to see there. And third and the greatest wonder of all, to find myself there!”
    Paul humbly stated in Philippians 3 “That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, If by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. NOT THAT I HAVE ALREADY ATTAINED, or am already perfected, but I press on that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has already laid hold of for me. Brethren I do not count myself to have apprehended…” Matthew Henry said of this text: “The apostle speaks as if they were in danger of missing it and coming up short! A holy fear of coming short is an excellent means of perseverance. Paul himself did not hope to attain it through his own merit but through the merit of Jesus Christ! Those who think they have grace enough give proof that they have little enough or rather that they have none at all, because where there is true Grace, there is a desire of more Grace!” A hunger, a thirst, an insatiable desire of more grace!

  22. Rhonda Phillips
    Posted April 20, 2011 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Wow. This person’s rant and insane ‘logic’ nearly leaves me speechless. One could quote numerous verses about not being judgemental/not loving thy neighbor etc. but in this medium that would simply be preaching to the choir.
    I, too, have encountered those who loath the Catholic church. Such hatred does not come from God but the father of lies, Satan. I am not Catholic but I appreciate the pro-life stand all Catholics take. Although we differ on some secondary doctrines we agree on the basic tenants of Christianity. Were the mainline Protestant churches as united against the murder of the unborn as Catholics abortion would be but a vile memory of the past by now.
    Love your writings, Bryan, and have quoted you in emails and editorials to the local paper. We are responsible to give an accounting to no one but almighty God. Shake the dust of contempt from this misguided person off your “sandles” and do carry on.

    • Kevin Williams
      Posted April 20, 2011 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      Rhonda,
      I am in complete agreement with your appreciation of Catholic brothers and sisters standing up for the unborn. They tend to always pass Jesus litmus test of “By their fruits you shall know them” (Im speaking of good fruit)
      I was at PP the other day and I saw a lady I had never seen before from a good distance away. The Holy Spirit told me “Here comes a bundle of love!” (Words I never before used) and I found out He was right (Which should’nt be too surprising 🙂 A praying Catholic warrior, full of love for God, His word, and for the oppressed. Like me she would choose the vigil hours that were not covered so there would be a constant witness.
      Although I am not Roman Catholic, I consider myself catholic from the Webster’s definition of it; “Of the universal Christian Church” I prefer the Greek word ekklesia “called out ones, or congregation…”
      I even pray the Rosary when I am asked to participate out of respect and appreceation of being asked. (The uneasyness I feel is overshadowed by by the sense of God’s pleasure and presence)
      I dont have a problem holding Jesus mother in veneration. My favorite scene in “The Passion of the Christ” Is where Jesus repeatedly falls down under the burden of the cross. In one particular scene you see His total exhaustion and say “This time there aint no way He will be able to get back up” And then, He sees His mother. He has carried it for Himself, humanity and His Father. At the sight of His mother you can see Jesus draw from some inner strength as this time He is going to CARRY THE CROSS FOR HIS MOTHER! (The cross even bounces on His shoulder when he stands up) and he says: “See Mama, I make all things new!” Hallelujah!
      No, I have no problem venerating Jesus Blessed Mother!

  23. JDollar
    Posted April 20, 2011 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    When I hear people offer reasons such as this one as to why abortion would be better for the child I notice they do not feel the same way when it comes to born children. Arguments like this could also apply to newborns but I doubt anyone would support killing newborns to make sure they go to heaven. That’s very telling, if abortion is the better fate, then why wouldn’t they support killing newborns for the same reason? It’s like the orphan argument, ‘a child is better off aborted than to grow up in an orphanage’, well if it’s the better fate, then why not advocate for killing orphans? What about parents that choose to give birth in these situations, is that immoral? Why is it only the better choice for children who’s mothers want to abort, why isn’t it good for every child?

    I think these people understand life is valuable even for newborns in rough situations. The key in the pro-life movement is to help them see the unborn as just as valuable as born children. Once they see the unborn in the same light as born babies, these kind of arguments will not suffice.

  24. Mickey
    Posted April 20, 2011 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Caleb may I ask what “religion” are u?like deeper than just christian…like I personally am penticostal…altho we may not agree with somethings of the catholic church, we don’t think they are going to be condemned to hell…we believe that as long as they are filled with the holy ghost and do what is pleasing to god that they will be saved…as u can clearly see, bryan is indeed doing acts of god…and it’s against the bible to be a hypocrite…the proof of your hyprocritcy is very evident above…I think you might want to reread the bible in different versions and get what god is saying straight…

  25. Posted April 21, 2011 at 10:08 am | Permalink

    It’s sad that he wants to scare you with the fear of eternal punishment for your beliefs. It sounds oddly familiar.

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