This is the generation that will abolish abortion

Calvary Chapel Founder, Pastor Chuck Smith Calls Children a Liability and Endorses Abortifacient Birth Control

Last week, in his week-day podcast and radio show “Pastor’s Perspective” on K-WAVE (sound bite can be found at 25:50), Chuck Smith, founding pastor of Calvary Chapel and respected evangelical leader in Southern California, came out with a plug for birth control, calling children a liability and — more out there still — attempted to back it up with Scripture, quoting 1 Timothy 5:8, which says that anyone unable to support or provide for their family is worse than an infidel.

His remarks were all the more startling because they sounded less like a pastor steeped in Scripture, and more like a Planned Parenthood rep.  The show, airing  April 30th, answered a woman’s question about responsibility and family size with advice such as: “Kids used to be assets” (emphasis added), “Children are now a liability . . . cost a huge amount of money . . . ” “They are not productive in bringing back into the family,” and finally, his co-host, Don Stewart, stated, “Scripture says, in 1 Timothy 5:8, that anyone who cannot care for their family is worse than an infidel.”

Productive in bringing what back?  Free Happy Meals?  A brand-new Bentley?  Better?  (Children do, actually, bring in tax credits each April.)  And surely a family with many children has more potential to care for its own than one with one pampered pet.

Firstly, he takes Scripture surprisingly out of context, and totally skips over passages such as Psalm 127:1-5, in which children are called “a heritage from the Lord” and the man with many, a “quiver full” in fact, is called blessed, never to be put to shame — and not just blessed spiritually, but materially.  The inspired Word of God doesn’t say anything about a couple of arrows, or maybe one really good arrow that gets to go to Disneyland, Cabo, Europe, the best prep schools, and Harvard.  No, it says a quiver full.

At the same time, 1 Timothy 5:8 comes after the prelude stating that children are obliged to support their family, care for their widowed mother or father in their old age, and one another — and if there are no children, it then falls to the Church to carry out this duty.  “Those who don’t care for their family are worse than infidels” does not then imply that you should have fewer children!  It states outright that children are blessings, and that parents lose the natural support of a family if they have none or few.

Johnathan Blundell, a husband and Christian blogger, recently wrote regarding this verse that provision, in context, could not simply be read as meaning monetary — but to provide for your family is to provide love, primarily, and that, ultimately, God provides the means when we accept His gifts, which brings us back to Pastor Smith and his remarks about children no longer being much good.

The program also notes Genesis — the ever-quoted “be fruitful and multiply.” But for some reason Pastor Smith and his colleague say that this is no longer a directive.  That’s lovely, but where in the Bible does it say, “Sorry, that bit in Genesis, it’s over now.  There are enough of you.  Leave off, don’t make any more of you — you aren’t good anymore.”  Instead, Genesis states, “He saw all of this, and it was good.”  This “good” was not qualified by a time constraint.

If God offered you a surplus of food, would you say, “Oh no, thanks God, I just want to barely subsist, and eat beans and rice and some limp veggies, thanks.”  Or if God offered you the winning lotto ticket on the jackpot, would you say, “Wait-wait-wait, that’s a liability.  I’ll have to invest it responsibly!  I’ll have to finagle my taxes!  It’ll take — ohmigosh — time.  Liability!  What if it’s stolen?”  Or if God offered you a gorgeous million dollar home on the beach would you respond, “Well, no, that’s just way too much.  After all, talk about a liability: upkeep and property taxes and cleaning . . . . the list just goes on!”  You’d much rather have a shack, right?  And happiness, if God offered never-ending happiness — well, gee, that’s just too overwhelming, isn’t it?

But is this our attitude toward children, God’s priceless gift?  They aren’t valued at hundreds of millions like the lotto ticket: they’re invaluable.  They aren’t valued at 1 million like the house: they’re unrepeatable, unique individuals made in the likeness of the Creator.  They aren’t a lifetime of high cuisine, satiety, free food and peace of mind about being fed: they are a potential endless feeding of the soul with love.

Finally, Smith advises us about birth control, and in a flippant dismissal, tosses out all natural methods as “the rhythm method” with the cheap joke, “What do you call couples who use the rhythm method? Oh yeah: parents.”  But are we really hearing the facts here?  Yes, being responsible for your health and livelihood is also God’s directive to you as a married couple.  Some people truly have health issues that make having many children nearly impossible, and they need to prevent pregnancy.  Others wait until they have a full-time job, or more secure living arrangements.  But are we to listen to Pastor Smith interpret the best methods of birth control — outside his area of expertise — when he has just quoted Scripture out of context, which is in his area of expertise?

The truth is that the Pill is abortifacient:  it doesn’t just prevent pregnancy, it can take the life of an already conceived child.  Secondly, its success rate is not 100%, and is often much lower due to missed days and improper use.  Natural Family Planning, far from the hit-and-miss rhythm method joked about on Pastor’s Perspective, is highly effective.  Many of my close friends have used it for years without a hitch, and one couple in particular delayed having a child for four years after their marriage while the husband struggled to get regular work teaching in a university.  On top of that, it doesn’t douse a woman in chemicals and hormones labeled by the FDA as known carcinogens.

“But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, ‘Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.'”  It says this in Mark 10:14.

Are we really following Christ if we take the world’s view of children as assets or liabilities?  I think if Pastor Chuck Smith took the time, he would find this verse, and, while he may not be well-versed in healthy ways to plan a family, he should know that Christ is indignant when we put our personal comfort and material gain over “these little ones.”

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by C.J. Williams, Survivor

48 Comments

  1. Ed
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    I’ve known a lot of good Calvary Chapel folk, and some of my favorite Bible teachers in the past were from Calvary Chapel. This is extremely disappointing.

  2. Heidi Goertz
    Posted May 7, 2012 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

    When this pastor, many months ago, was giving the ok to the mom who was possibly having a child who may be handicapped to consider abortion, I hoped his flustered response was just a mistake. However, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” Very early in Genesis we read of large cities being built. According to Chuck, there was a very narrow window of time waaaay back that kids were actually an asset, since worth was how much farm work you could do, according to him. Since when is worth determined by how much work you can produce?What if you don’t have the use of your legs? Are you less useful? Those in the forefront are and will be responsible for what they say.Let’s pray for this pastor, that his eyes would be opened and that his large audience would be infused with truth instead of error.

  3. Posted May 7, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

    Great words Heidi

  4. Posted May 8, 2012 at 12:07 am | Permalink

    I am a little more than shocked to read the words that this supposed man of God, says out of context. I pray that he will start to really listen to God and really read His word and understand that all of His words are as relevant today as they were waaaay back then. I know plenty of couples who would love to have children. I also now of couples who have aborted children. I myself was adopted, Praise God. I thanked my birth parents for allowing me to be adopted. I thanked my adoptive parents for raising me. I have boy, whose wife can not have children, so they adopted a baby boy and he is the apple of their eye. They are already looking forward to adopting another child.

    Heidi’ message was right on. I didn’t know that worth was determined by how much work I could produce. Because to some people I am considered worthless, because I have no legs any more, But I say that to God I am useful, because I can talk and teach His word.

    So to end this, I pray that Pastor Smith gets down on his knees and begs forgiveness from God for his words and leading people away from the true Word of God. God Bless All

  5. d jacquet
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 1:14 am | Permalink

    knowing the teaching of Calvary chapels it is obvious this is terribly out of context, and twisting definitions to create a conflict. Opinions should not be based on so thin a investigation of only one side.

  6. Posted May 8, 2012 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    Bryan, Do you just want to “be Pro Life” for yourself, or do you want to SAVE BABIES? If the Pro Life movement is truly about changing laws and saving babies then this sort of intolerance of birth control undermines that effort. If we believe that abortion is morally wrong for all people in all faiths we should make arguments that will change minds. If you beleive that all people are expected to birth all the children they can and trust God to provide for them then you are expecting a measure faith from non-believers.
    The same democracy that allows us our freedom to oppose these laws also allows everyone else to have as much or as little faith as they choose.

    Do you beleive that all birth control is morally wrong for all people?

    You are free to belive that and I would not challenge your faith but it renders you pretty ineffective in the overall cause.

    Chuck didn’t say anything wrong. He told the woman it is ok to use BC. His use of the word “liability” may seem harsh but it is a true statement. Children COST money. If you want to have a lot you better have a good financial plan.

    If it’s just about saving babies then who has done more to that end? Chuck Smith has been used to bring many thousands, perhaps millions into the Kingdom. I suspect that has prevented a whole lot of abortions.

    Peace

    • Posted May 8, 2012 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      Dave I was wondering if you read up on any of the links we provided about the effects of Chemical birth control? The fact that all forms of chemical bc can cause an abortion as they strip the lining of the uterus so when breakthrough ovulation happens it denies the conceived child the chance to implant and that child is spontaneously aborted. Please research this, it is eye opening information that I have studied for years. The fact that he encourages the use of this and discourages the use of Natural Family Planning, almost mocking those who use it is disturbing.

      Secondly children are NOT a liability and if we allow this kind of mentality to be taught in the church then we are going to just help the abortion industry. The cost of raising a child is never the measure of whether that child is a blessing or a liability. Psalm 127 says that children are a blessing from God, a heritage from Him. Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them.

      You don’t need a better financial plan, you just need to understand the difference between wants and needs.

      • Posted May 8, 2012 at 11:03 am | Permalink

        Bryan, Thanks for that thoughtful response. Here is where we differ, (respectfully); I am aware that many forms of chemical BC work by causing an abortion. It is my understanding that not all work that way. But i believe we are entering an area where the appropriate answer is not clear in the scripture. I am a quiver-full person. But it’s easy for me to be as we are adopting due to infirtility. Still I would love a larger family and I’d like to think i would trust God no matter how big the number got. If that choice began to impact my wife’s health, i would reconsider. Ultimately i believe these are choices between an individual and God so i don’t disagree with Chuck for telling a person birth control is not wrong.

        Your statement; “You don’t need a better financial plan, you just need to understand the difference between wants and needs.”

        Are you saying that anyone can and should have as many children as their bodies will produce regardless of their earning capability or resources?

        Do you believe all are called to do this?

        THanks

        Dave

        • Chuck
          Posted October 28, 2012 at 1:50 am | Permalink

          @Dave – If you look up the words Chastity and Abstinence that might give you a different angle/perspective on this. God made eating pleasurable but do you stuff yourself and then make yourself throw up because you don’t want the “burden” or the “liability” of gaining weight? No, you stop eating or limit the amount that you eat or you exercise. If you came over to my house for dinner and stuffed yourself until you were completely satisfied and then asked me where the bathroom was so could go throw up all of the food that you just ate I would be insulted just as I imagine God is when we tell him we want to enjoy the gift of sex but he better leave the decision over the creation of life to us. Here is a question for you, was there ever a human being conceived that God did not want conceived? Put another way is it possible to conceive of a child without Gods participation? The point here is, if God wants me to have 30 kids and be dirt poor who am I to question God? You are on a slippery slope towards relativism and recreating God in YOUR own image. Whatsoever we do to the least of His brothers, that we do unto Him. When you raise a child you are feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, caring for the sick and clothing the naked without even leaving your home. Please tell me how you presume to know what babies God wants born and which ones He does not? If you don’t want more children abstain, plain and simple. Or are we simply mammals that were created to eat, drink and be merry?

          Peace in Christ.

    • Posted May 8, 2012 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      Dave first I want to thank you for keeping this discussion respectful, just because we may disagree on some points, does not mean there has to be anger.

      The main problem I have with Chuck and his statements are the anti-child sentiment that it comes of as. It really seems to put down the large family, trust in God, full quiver people as insane. I just can NEVER call a child a liability and always treat them as a blessing.

      On the Birth Control issue for me personally I do not believe in ever using it. There has never been a church in history before 1930 that ever accepted the use of birth control as ok. As someone who believes that every single child created is created by God I do not believe God has ever made a mistake and that there has never been a child born or conceived who was not supposed to be. Therefore I would never think that I knew better than God and try and determine whether or not to have more or less children.

      I also know as a high school drop out and former drug dealer who lived on the streets that earning potential is not something I worry about. I never went to college and have less than a high school education. My earning potential is all about what God provides for me at it says in Philippines 4:19 “My God shall supply all my needs through His riches and glory….”

      I believe that the Word of God is true and that I will use that as my meter rather then what people think in this day and age. I just know that as I look at my kids, all 7 of them, that God gave each one to me as His heritage as it says in Psalm 127. They are all gifts, not liabilities.

      • Posted May 8, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

        “On the Birth Control issue for me personally I do not believe in ever using it.” –

        The key phrase is “for me personally” But do you question the faith or rightiousness of people who don’t see it that way?

        Do you beleive it is fundamentally WRONG? If so, do you beleive that God would use and bless people who are so wrong?

        I believe in the accuracy of the Bible but I believe these times have created situations for which the answers are not clear.

        And what if new technology raised another question? What if there was readily available technology that prdicted fertility with 100% accuracy, making NFP more reliable than the pill? Would we still be trusting God?

        What if after the 7th child your doctor told you the 8th one would kill your wife? What if you and she disagreed on the right answer?

        I think the world needs black and white people but I am not one of them.

        • Chuck
          Posted October 28, 2012 at 1:57 am | Permalink

          “What if after the 7th child your doctor told you the 8th one would kill your wife? What if you and she disagreed on the right answer?”

          If you knew that the next Cheeseburger you ate could kill you would you keep eating cheeseburgers? Look at it this way, if there were a drug out that would guarantee with 100% reliability that you could eat as much as you wanted to and you would never gain weight would that make it ok to take that drug and then gorge yourself on food every single day? The Bible is utterly silent regarding this issue, so ask yourself, would taking that pill just so you could enjoy gorging yourself everyday be ok?

  7. Posted May 8, 2012 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    As if God gave us children only as a means to add to our wealth. Sad. Children are the result of blessing, and they are assets for future impact!

  8. Eric
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately, Chuck Smith can’t find anywhere in the bible where it talks about birth control. My answer to that assumption is in 4 parts:

    Part 1. It is unbiblical to use the bible ALONE because “Scripture Alone” not appear anywhere in the bible. Jesus never wrote anything down. Jesus never told anybody else to write anything down. The bible doesn’t itself doesn’t even tell us to use the bible alone. For example, where is the word “trinity” in the bible? Christians believe in the trinity but that word isn’t in the bible. So your question itself contains error because not all truth is in the bible. People make the mistake of using the bible alone instead of using sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and the teaching authority of the Church since all 3 are linked together. Jesus lived in a time where certain contraceptives, the pill, IUD’s, in vitro fertilization, ebryonic stem cell research, and cloning were not available so it would be useless to teach people about things that don’t exist yet. But Jesus knows everything and knew that one day certain evils would be created as human technology evolved. That’s why he established a (universal or worldwide or catholic) Church to update its infallible teachings based on all the modern day bio-ethical issues as they arise. For example:

    1 Timothy 3:15 says “…if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and FOUNDATION OF THE TRUTH.” It doesn’t say the bible is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Church is. Therefore, the bible alone does not give us the fullness of the truth. Sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and the teaching authority of the Church give us the fullness of the truth on all faith and morals since all 3 are linked together.

    In Matthew 16:18-19, Jesus establishes His Church (not a bible) for eternity when he told Peter: “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

    Jesus says that we should listen to the Church, or be regarded no better than a tax collector! Also, in Luke 10:16, Jesus tells the Church leaders the following: “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

    Therefore, if you reject the authority of the Church, you reject Jesus Himself.

    http://www.catholicbible101.com/theroleofthechurch.htm

    • Posted May 8, 2012 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      Eric, My comments are not directed at Catholics. i would never argue a Catholic’s position on this subject. It is your faith and a position you all agree on. I assume the blogger is a non-Catholic Evangelical so when he attackes an Icon like Chuck Smith I feel compelled to challenge his assertions. Does that make sense?
      It would disrespectfull and pointess to challenge your deeply held beliefs.
      Among non-Catholics these things are not dogma and therefore can be debated.

      Dave Silva

      • Eric
        Posted May 8, 2012 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        Hi Dave! There are 2 types of beliefs/positions/faiths:

        Beliefs/positions/faiths based on assumptions and beliefs/positions/faiths based on sufficient knowledge. If you read parts 2, 3, and 4 of my comments below you will understand a bit more why artificial birth control is biblically immoral even though Calvary Chapel teaches that their 90.4% complete bible is silent on the issue. Part 4 strays from the subject a bit but gives some basic facts as to why the “non-catholic Christian” position is based on assumption while the Catholic position is based on sufficient knowledge. When non-catholic clergy study history they eventually come home to the (catholic) Church just as the prodigal son came home to his father.

  9. Eric
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Part 2: If you read your bible you’ll gain sufficient knowledge to understand that “Christians have ALWAYS condemned contraceptive sex. Both forms mentioned in the Bible, coitus interruptus and sterilization, are condemned without exception (Gen. 38:9–10, Deut. 23:1). The early Fathers recognized that the purpose of sexual intercourse in natural law is procreation; contraceptive sex, which deliberately blocks that purpose, is a violation of natural law.”

    http://www.catholic.com/tracts/contraception-and-sterilization

  10. Eric
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    Part 3: Here is a verse that outlaws contraception along with more biblical references you can read in the short article below:

    In Genesis 38:9-10, God struck down Onan for spilling his seed, something that happens every time with a condom:

    Genesis 38:9-10: “But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground, lest he should give offspring to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he slew him also.”

    http://www.catholicbible101.com/artificialbirthcontrol.htm

  11. Eric
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    Part 4: The bible outlaws murder in the Decalogue. Abortion is murder. An abortifacient is an agent which causes an abortion by interfering with the development of the conceived child in the womb. “The Pill” is an abortifacient. “The Pill” is a form of contraception. This is another example of the bible outlawing contraception. Here is a short video clip explaining how “The Pill” works as an abortifacient:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiCU46_lWeE

    The (catholic) Church has outlived every major empire.

    The (catholic) Church is the only church that was founded by a sinless man in 33 AD.

    The (catholic) Church is the only church whose teachings are infallible (without error).

    The (catholic) Church is the only church that has an unbroken direct link to Jesus and his Apostles.

    The (catholic) Church is the only church that contains the fullness of the truth.

    The (catholic) Church is the parent, the author, and maker under God, of the Bible.

    The (catholic) Church educates more children than any scholarly or religious institution.

    The (catholic) Church is the only church that can correctly interpret her Bible just as any author alone can correctly interpret his autobiography.

    The (catholic) Church is the largest charitable organization on the planet.

    The (catholic) Church has guarded her Bible and defended it all through the ages and preserved it from error or destruction.

    The (catholic) Church founded the college system.

    There are over 33,820 different Christian churches that are borrowing some truth from the (catholic) Church, who alone has the fullness of the truth, resulting in no need to borrow anything in return.

    The (catholic) Church alone has the right to call the bible her book.

    The (catholic) Church teaches married couples to use Natural Family Planning which results in a 0.2% (1 in 500) divorce rate. Couples using artificial birth control are on a path to today’s 50% (1 in 2) divorce rate.

    The (catholic) Church developed the scientific method.

    The (catholic) Church alone possesses the true and whole Bible of 73 books.

    The (catholic) Church has cities named after Saints.

    Copies of the Scriptures existing outside of the (catholic) Church are partly incorrect and partly defective, and that whatever in them is true, is true because derived from Christ’s (universal or catholic) Church who alone possesses the Bible in its fullness and its truth.

    The (catholic) Church developed the laws of evidence.

    Any Bible used outside the (catholic) Church is only being borrowed and interpreted with child-like confidence.

    Mis-interpretation of the Bible has created 33,820 different “Christian” churches started by random men resulting in Non-Denominational and Protestant chaos. (Protestant = to protest the (catholic) Church)

    Does anyone disagree with anything I have stated and upon what religious authority is your disagreement valid?

  12. luvlife9
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    After listening to Chuck’s podcast I am so disgusted by the thought that Christians actually follow the leadership of ignorant men like this. My husband and I have seven children and have personally learned the truth that God does provide for HIS children. We are a single provider family and often make great sacrifices but God DOES provide. The problem with the thinking of people like Chuck is that they feel that they can pick and choose which scriptures to take literally and which to ignore or shrug off as “out-dated”. Chuck and his buddy are also wrong about Natural Family Planning. It is an effective method to be used by those who have grave reason for not being able to have a child, it only requires self-control. The “Christian” ideas that this man is promoting are nothing more than his opinion. Thank God for the wisdom of THE CHURCH. By the way, the caller that called in asking about removing the children from public school also received an un-educated answer… what is the $500 for homeschooling a child deal??? Sounded like he made that up in a jiffy.

  13. Paul
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    You all are taking Chuck’s heart out of context! And it is possible for one to be mistaken on such issues. Regardless I have sat in this man’s church and testify that Chuck Smith is a man of God. So be careful what you say about God’s servants.

    • Posted May 8, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

      Paul please explain how we took what he said out of context, there is not other context to take. I will say that over the years he has been a great man who has done some great things but as of lately he has been steering people the wrong way. Last year he advised a woman on air that it was ok to get an abortion. He is making some huger errors that are not just wrong, but steer people in a bad direction. I do believe he is and wants to be a servant of God, however he is leading people down a dangerous path with this kind of teaching.

    • luvlife9
      Posted May 8, 2012 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

      In America, Christians are ignoring God’s command to be fruitful and multiply. They are more focused on material wealth and spoiling their “perfect” 1.2 children. This was not God’s plan for the family. This is the luring deception of the culture of death. It is the same thinking which people use to justify the many things which have destroyed the family unit, including feminism, the rampant use of abortion and the removing of fathers from the position of head of household just to name a few. With mom & dad or mom & mom or dad & dad both focused on career and the accumulation of wealth there is no time, or resources for children. Come on Christians…quit with the cop outs, God gave us a clear path to follow, there isn’t a grey area here. I don’t care how Godly anyone thinks Chuck was or is, his teaching is unGodly which leads me to the conclusion that either A) Chuck is a wolf in sheep’s clothing or B) Chuck is ignorant. Either way he will answer to God for leading many people down this path of deception.

    • Eric
      Posted May 8, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      Hi Paul! I have a question about your statement of “this man’s (Chuck Smith) church.” I do not understand who gave Chuck Smith the authority to start his own “church.” In fact, Chuck Smith’s “church” and all the other Calvary Chapels claim to be bible-based churches. But this presents a serious problem. The early Church bishops who assembled the New Testament and decided which books were inspired and were not inspired, also interpreted the New Testament for us being the subject matter experts (who better to interpret the NT than the people who created the New Testament after years of sifting and thoroughly interpreting and eliminating all the other writings like The Gospel of Thomas, The Book of Pontius Pilate, The Gosepl of Philip, etc?) The early Church fathers purposely included proof-text that the Church is the foundation of truth, which makes sense, especially since the first 400 years of Christianity survived on sacred tradition and the teaching authority of the Church. I found many more interesting verses regarding people that rely on the bible alone instead of using sacred scripture, sacred tradition, and the teaching authority of the Church since all 3 are linked together:

      1 Tim 3:15 church is foundation of truth (not Scripture)
      Mt 16:18 Jesus: I will build my church (not “write my Bible”)
      Mt 16:18 The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church
      Mt 18:17 Jesus: the church has power to discipline
      Mt 18:18 Jesus: the church has power to set rules
      Mt 23:2-3 obey the office (not individuals; not Scripture)
      Mt 28:19-20 The Great Commission (make disciples w/o Bible)
      Lk 10:16 Jesus: apostles can speak for me
      Jn 14:16 Spirit guides apostles to all truth
      Jn 16:13 Spirit guides apostles to all truth
      Jn 17:18; 20:21 Father =>Jesus => apostles
      Act 2:42 doctrine, community, sacred rite
      Eph 2:20 apostles + Jesus = church foundation
      Eph 3:56 Spirit revealed truth to apostles
      Eph 5:25-26 Jesus loved, died for, the church (not Scripture)
      Eph 5:29 Jesus nourishes/cherishes the church (not Scripture)
      Heb 13:17 obey church leaders (not Scripture)

      Mt 18:17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.”

      “Jesus says that we should listen to the Church, or be regarded no better than a tax collector! Also, in Luke 10:16, Jesus tells the Church leaders the following: “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” By rejecting the authority of the Church, you reject Jesus Himself.”

      We have proof-text for the Church (not scripture) being the ground of all truth, especially 1 Tim 3:15. There was no Bible for the first 400 years after Jesus rose from the dead. Christians did not need an official canonized New Testament for the first 400 years to be saved. Sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God’s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls. So I have 2 quick questions if you don’t mind. I am confused as to why a lot of Christians that rely on the bible alone and sola scriptura, always ignore proof-text for the Church (not scripture) being the ground of all truth? And if you were alive during the Christian era of 33 AD – 397 AD when there was no official canonized New Testament, what would you do since you rely on the bible alone?

      Your brother in Christ,

      Eric

      1 Tim 3:15 church is foundation of truth (not Scripture)
      Mt 16:18 Jesus: I will build my church (not “write my Bible”)
      Mt 16:18 The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church
      Mt 18:17 Jesus: the church has power to discipline
      Mt 18:18 Jesus: the church has power to set rules
      Mt 23:2-3 obey the office (not individuals; not Scripture)
      Mt 28:19-20 The Great Commission (make disciples w/o Bible)
      Lk 10:16 Jesus: apostles can speak for me
      Jn 14:16 Spirit guides apostles to all truth
      Jn 16:13 Spirit guides apostles to all truth
      Jn 17:18; 20:21 Father =>Jesus => apostles
      Act 2:42 doctrine, community, sacred rite
      Eph 2:20 apostles + Jesus = church foundation
      Eph 3:56 Spirit revealed truth to apostles
      Eph 5:25-26 Jesus loved, died for, the church (not Scripture)
      Eph 5:29 Jesus nourishes/cherishes the church (not Scripture)
      Heb 13:17 obey church leaders (not Scripture)

      Mt 18:17 “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.”

      “Jesus says that we should listen to the Church, or be regarded no better than a tax collector! Also, in Luke 10:16, Jesus tells the Church leaders the following: “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” By rejecting the authority of the Church, you reject Jesus Himself.”

      We have proof-text for the Church (not scripture) being the ground of all truth, especially 1 Tim 3:15. There was no Bible for the first 400 years after Jesus rose from the dead. Christians did not need an official canonized New Testament for the first 400 years to be saved. Sacred tradition, sacred scripture, and the teaching authority of the Church, in accord with God’s most wise design, are so linked and joined together that one cannot stand without the others, and that all together and each in its own way under the action of the one Holy Spirit contribute effectively to the salvation of souls. So I have 2 quick questions if you don’t mind. I am confused as to why a lot of Christians that rely on the bible alone and sola scriptura, always ignore proof-text for the Church (not scripture) being the ground of all truth? And if you were alive during the Christian era of 33 AD – 397 AD when there was no official canonized New Testament, what would you do since you rely on the bible alone?

      Your brother in Christ,

      Eric

    • Chuck
      Posted October 28, 2012 at 2:00 am | Permalink

      Amen Brother, Amen : )

    • Chuck
      Posted October 28, 2012 at 2:12 am | Permalink

      @Paul – If you think about what you are saying it lacks logic. You are basically saying “hey everyone Chuck Smith is a good preacher so just ignore the fact that he told a woman to have an Abortion and that he said children are liability. No matter how you twist it those aren’t “Christian” points of view. Abortion is murder and children are NEVER a liability. No child was or ever will be born that Almighty God did not will to be born. Ask yourself this question, was there ever a child born that God did not want to be born? If so, how was it possible for a human being to enter into life against Gods will or without Gods will? It’s just not possible. Lastly, intentionally having sex while using artificial means to prevent birth is telling God that He doesn’t really understanding the gravity of the situation so you are going to take matters into your own hands just in case He makes a mistake and allows your wife to conceive…..really? Think about it brother….. what faith does it take to use birth control? Does God really need US to control the number of human beings He creates? How in the world can we possibly know how many children God wills us to have? Well actually there is one way to know, do not interfere with Gods sovereign work being done in and through us. Just look at these two words (BIRTH CONTROL) do they seem to you to fit in with the Christian life of faith? I think 2 better words are “Self Control”

  14. Sweet Marmot
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    I used to go to a Calvary Church in Seattle. It was a good church back in the early to mid 90’s. This sounds like Chuck is going off the deep end a littlw bit.

  15. Posted May 8, 2012 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    so sad- but an ordained pastor saying “rhythm method” instead of NFP- it seems he is living over 50 years in the past

    • luvlife9
      Posted May 8, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      Most people who claim that NFP doesn’t work have never tried and just can’t imagine exercising self control. NFP is the perfect solution for many couples. I wish more Christian pastors, priests and lay people would promote it’s use.

  16. Jayme
    Posted May 8, 2012 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

    First…do you have a link to him recommending an abortion?

    Second, I was really hoping when I listened that I would see the article was misleading. I believe it was. First of all, there was no mention of any specific birth control (with the exception of the rhythm method.) So the fact that the article says he endorses abortifacient birth control is completely bogus. Also, when he called children a liability (which I agree was a very poor word to use) he was speaking specifically about how children used to be an asset to the family income with farming, because they could help. Nowadays, financially, most children don’t contribute to the family income. They said you need to be able to feed and clothe the children you have. The pastors both specifically said it’s a very personal matter and though children may be “liabilities” they are well worth it. Chuck specifically said he “loves his liabilities.” So all in all, though I didn’t like everything he said, the article you posted twisted much of what he said. I know there are many out there that are very anti-Calvary Chapel and very anti-Chuck Smith. But unless you’ve actually heard his teachings, I don’t think it’s right to judge. If you listen and you don’t like it, it’s no skin off my nose. Different people have different taste. Though I’ve attended Calvary Chapel for years, I don’t agree with everything they teach. And that’s ok. No man is perfect and no man has all the answers. Of course, we should never elevate man’s teaching above the Bible. Some subjects, however, are not cut and dried…so I think respect for different opinions is important. Family size is not a salvation issue.

  17. Jennifer
    Posted May 9, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

    I was very discouraged and disappointed after receiving this email from Survivors a few days ago. I gave it the benefit of the doubt that I thought it deserved and listened myself to the podcast. There was nothing egregious or inaccurate about what was stated in the podcast. It is an historical fact that children used to be reared to contribute to the financial well-being of the family, which is not the system we have today. The email blast blatantly FAILED to mention how the pastors made it VERY clear that children are wholly cherished and loved and appreciated. It certainly did NOT give a balanced or fair assessment of the podcast. In addition, nowhere in the podcast was ‘the pill’ endorsed by either pastor. There are many forms of birth control that are not abortifacients. This is a medical fact. The Catholic church takes a very hard stance against all forms of birth control, except the rhythm method, but this is not an opinion shared by all Christians. And since there are no scriptures stating a vehement opposition to all forms of birth control, it is very wrong to publicly attack a Christian brother on this issue. Lastly, I have asked the author if he has followed Matthew 18:15-17? “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church, and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or tax collector.” If it was sincerely felt that the pastors were committing a sin by what they said then these biblical steps should have been followed. By endorsing this article, you assisted evil divisive spirits and made yourself a mouthpiece for things not of God. God commands us to love one another in 2 Cor 13:10-12 “brothers and sisters rejoice! Strive for full restoration, encourage one another, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.” You did not follow this command toward your fellow Christians.
    We are in a very heated battle for the unborn and for mothers-to-be who are in crisis on the verge of making terrible and life-changing decisions. We all need to keep our eyes focused on the true goal and not turn against one another. We are all part of one big church family and should always treat each other as family. In this time where the tides are finally showing signs of turning towards a more pro-life attitude in our world, why would you choose to divide our family in half??? The wisdom of our Lord was not in your decision to do so.

    • Eric
      Posted May 10, 2012 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

      Hello Jennifer! You said, “There are many forms of birth control that are not abortifacients. This is a medical fact.”

      Let’s talk about artificial birth control that aren’t abortifacients and why they are still immoral. “Few realize that up until 1930, all Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning contraception as sinful. At its 1930 Lambeth Conference, the Anglican church, swayed by growing social pressure, announced that contraception would be allowed in some circumstances. Soon the Anglican church completely caved in, allowing contraception across the board. Since then, all other Protestant denominations have followed suit. Today, the Catholic Church alone proclaims the historic Christian position on contraception.

      Evidence that contraception is in conflict with God’s laws comes from a variety of sources that will be examined in this tract.

      Contraception is wrong because it’s a deliberate violation of the design God built into the human race, often referred to as “natural law.” The natural law purpose of sex is procreation. The pleasure that sexual intercourse , lest he should give offspringprovides is an additional blessing from God, intended to offer the possibility of new life while strengthening the bond of intimacy, respect, and love between husband and wife. The loving environment this bond creates is the perfect setting for nurturing children.

      But sexual pleasure within marriage becomes unnatural, and even harmful to the spouses, when it is used in a way that deliberately excludes the basic purpose of sex, which is procreation. God’s gift of the sex act, along with its pleasure and intimacy, must not be abused by deliberately frustrating its natural end—procreation.

      The Bible mentions at least one form of contraception specifically and condemns it. Coitus interruptus, was used by Onan to avoid fulfilling his duty according to the ancient Jewish law of fathering children for one’s dead brother. “Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.’ But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife he spilled the semen on the ground to his brother. And what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he slew him also” (Gen. 38:8–10).

      The biblical penalty for not giving your brother’s widow children was public humiliation, not death (Deut. 25:7–10). But Onan received death as punishment for his crime. This means his crime was more than simply not fulfilling the duty of a brother-in-law. He lost his life because he violated natural law, as Jewish and Christian commentators have always understood. For this reason, certain forms of contraception have historically been known as “Onanism,” after the man who practiced it, just as homosexuality has historically been known as “Sodomy,” after the men of Sodom, who practiced that vice (cf. Gen. 19).

      Contraception was so far outside the biblical mindset and so obviously wrong that it did not need the frequent condemnations other sins did. Scripture condemns the practice when it mentions it. Once a moral principle has been established in the Bible, every possible application of it need not be mentioned. For example, the general principle that theft is wrong was clearly established in Scripture; but there’s no need to provide an exhaustive list of every kind of theft. Similarly, since the principle that contraception is wrong has been established by being condemned when it’s mentioned in the Bible, every particular form of contraception does not need to be dealt with in Scripture in order for us to see that it is condemned.” source: catholic.com/tracts/birth-control

      You also said, “The Catholic church takes a very hard stance against all forms of birth control, except the rhythm method, but this is not an opinion shared by all Christians.”

      That is incorrect. The (Universal or Catholic) Church allows Natural Family Planning, not to be confused with the Rhythm Method. You can google them and find out the differences. In fact, “there are two main differences between NFP and artifical contraception: First, artificial contraception involves direct and deliberate steps before, during, and after the marital act. Natural Family Planning involves no marital act at all. To put it another way, artifical contraception involves doing something, NFP involves doing nothing. Morally, there is a big difference between acting against something and not acting against it. If a couple, for serious reasons, desires to space out the births of their children they can abstain from marital relations without harboring a hostile and immoral attitude toward human life. By abstaining they are not attacking life at its very beginning through chemical or mechanical means. Second, NFP requires the loving cooperation of both parties, intead of placing the burden only on one partner. This mutual involvement of husband and wife demands real communication between them, which, in turn, can enhance the respect, increase the affection, and deepen the love they feel for each other.” source: catholic-truth.info/apologetics/birthcontrol.htm#ba

      You also said, “this is not an opinion shared by all Christians.” Remember, that opinions are based on either assumptions or sufficient knowledge. Christ established ONE church, not 33,820 each with different opinions/beliefs, etc. The Church must be one:

      John 10:16 – there shall be one fold and one shepherd
      John 17:17-23 – I pray that they may be one, as we are one
      John 17:23 – that they may be brought to perfection as one
      Romans 12:5 – we, though many, are one body in Christ
      Romans 15:5 – God grant you to think in harmony with one another
      Romans 16:17 – avoid those who create dissensions
      1 Corinthians 1:10 – I urge you that there be no divisions among you
      1 Corinthians 12:13 – in one spirit we were baptized into one body
      Ephesians 4:4-6 -There is one Body, one Spirit, just as one hope is the goal of your calling by God. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all, over all, through all and within all.
      Philippians 2:2 – be of same mind, united in heart, thinking one thing
      Colossians 3:15 – the peace into which you were called in one body
      St. Cyprian (c. 250AD) – “God is one and Christ in one, and one is His Church, and the faith is one, and His people welded together by the glue of concord into a solid unity of body. Unity cannot be rent asunder, nor can the one body of the Church, through the division of its structure, be divided into separate pieces.” (On the Unity of the Church, 23)
      Tertullian (c. 197AD) – “We are a society with a single religious feeling, a single unity of discipline, a single bond of hope,” (Apology 39, 1)
      St. Hilary (c. 4th century) – “In the Scriptures our people are shown to be made one, so that just as many grains collected into one and ground and mingled together, make one loaf, so in Christ, who is the heavenly bread, we know there is one holy, in which our whole company is joined and united” (Treatise 62, 13)

      190. The (catholic) Church has outlived every major empire.

      191. The (catholic) Church is the only church that was founded by a sinless man in 33 AD.

      192. The (catholic) Church is the only church whose teachings are infallible (without error).

      193. The (catholic) Church is the only church that has an unbroken direct link to Jesus and his Apostles.

      194. The (catholic) Church is the only church that contains the fullness of the truth.

      195. The (catholic) Church is the parent, the author, and maker under God, of the Bible.

      196. The (catholic) Church educates more children than any scholarly or religious institution.

      197. The (catholic) Church is the only church that can correctly interpret her Bible just as any author alone can correctly interpret his autobiography.

      198. The (catholic) Church is the largest charitable organization on the planet.

      199. The (catholic) Church has guarded her Bible and defended it all through the ages and preserved it from error or destruction.

      200. The (catholic) Church founded the college system.

      201. There are over 33,820 different Christian churches that are borrowing some truth from the (catholic) Church, who alone has the fullness of the truth, resulting in no need to borrow anything in return.

      202. The (catholic) Church alone has the right to call the bible her book.

      203. The (catholic) Church teaches married couples to use Natural Family Planning which results in a 0.2% (1 in 500) divorce rate. Couples using artificial birth control are on a path to today’s 50% (1 in 2) divorce rate.

      204. The (catholic) Church developed the scientific method.

      205. The (catholic) Church alone possesses the true and whole Bible of 73 books.

      206. The (catholic) Church has cities named after Saints.

      207. Copies of the Scriptures existing outside of the (catholic) Church are partly incorrect and partly defective, and that whatever in them is true, is true because derived from Christ’s (universal or catholic) Church who alone possesses the Bible in its fullness and its truth.

      208. The (catholic) Church developed the laws of evidence.

      209. Any Bible used outside the (catholic) Church is only being borrowed and interpreted with child-like confidence.

      210. Mis-interpretation of the Bible has created 33,820 different “Christian” churches started by random men resulting in Non-Denominational and Protestant chaos. (Protestant = to protest the (catholic) Church)

      When non-catholic clergy study history they eventually come home to the (catholic) Church just as the prodigal son came home to his father.

      • Jennifer
        Posted May 10, 2012 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

        While your points are interesting and your knowledge impressive it misses the point…this is a pro-life website. I am unequivocally pro-life as I think I can safely assume you are as well. We are all striving toward the same cause….When an electrical design contractor looks into a room, does he place two lights where there was previously just one? Or does he find the darkest corner and place one there? Obviously the latter! And why is that? It’s to abolish all the darkness. When we turn on each other over small matters and pick each other apart we take our eyes off the true focus. This infighting does not align with God’s truths and wisdom. That was my point….as a side note: I called it rhythm method because my good Catholic friend at the pregnancy center called it that when she counseled me on how to go about it. Interestingly enough, I am now expecting (unexpectedly but very happily). I do not wish to challenge your allegiance to the church body that you attend, that being the “Catholic church”. It is a good thing that you have found a place of fellowship and to hear good teaching. But please do not skip over the truth about what church is and do not be deceived. The Greek word for church is “ekklesia” meaning ‘called out ones’ or ‘assembly’. The church is us, you and me. Jesus did not die for a building, no matter how beautifully constructed or a program or an organization. He died for us. Saved people are the church. God does not care what you call yourself, he cares about your heart. ‘your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit’ 1Cor 6:19. ‘People look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart’ Sam 16:7. On the day my Savior died for me the shroud of the holy of holies was ripped from top to bottom and our hearts became homes. You and I, although we go to different buildings are part of the same church family to God, and we should act accordingly. Yes, the Catholic church has done some wonderful things throughout history but there are some very dark marks on her past as well. This will be so with anything led by men, even ones inspired by God. As was David in his reign, as was Solomon, as were so many stories of great biblical men. Because ‘ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory’ Rom 3:23. I will follow Christ and only Christ, no matter what building I attend for services.

        • Eric
          Posted May 12, 2012 at 9:58 am | Permalink

          Good morning and thanks for the reply! Here is some basic information from the bible about Jesus establishing his New Covenant and I was interested in your thoughts?

          1. Jesus Christ is the final covenant God made with man.
          2. When God makes a covenant, He makes it with Himself, and He promises to fulfill it. He is the author and the finisher of the covenant. The covenant consists of the promises made as part of that covenant.
          3. Every promise Jesus made when He was here on earth was part of that covenant. He is the Word. Everything He said is part of that covenant.
          4. Jesus promised to Peter that He would build His church on that rock in Matthew 16.
          5. In Matthew 16:13-20, the Greek distinguishes between when Jesus is speaking to all the disciples and to Peter alone.
          6. Therefore certain promises were made to Peter apart from the rest of the disciples.
          7. Jesus referred to giving Peter the keys, a reference to Isaiah 22-22, where there is the promise of the office of steward.
          8. Jesus therefore gave Peter primacy over the other disciples.
          9. This can be observed in the Gospels and the book of Acts, where Peter is generally mentioned first. He also speaks more than the other disciples.
          10. Peter directed church activity in Acts 1:15 following. Peter gave the first Christian sermon in Acts 2:14. This primacy was clearly recognized by the other disciples. There are numerous examples of this in the book of Acts.
          11. Paul recognized the primacy. In Galatians 1:18 he went to Jerusalem and visited Cephas (=Peter) only.
          12. Jesus made an everlasting covenant, meaning that although Peter died, the office would continue. We see succession of apostles started in Acts 1 by Peter.
          13. The covenant being everlasting, its promises are also everlasting. Therefore the office continues today.
          14. There are repeated warnings in Scripture against schismatics and heretics. We see this in the early church fathers as well. Paul warns against those bringing a different Gospel in Galatians 1:6-9, for example.
          15. There is therefore a divinely authorized bishopric which developed into the Papacy.
          16. Neither Luther nor Calvin nor any other reformer was authorized to bring reform to the Catholic church.
          17. Jesus said, “he who receives you, receives me, and he who receives me, receives him who sent me.” This was spoken to the apostles, the forebears of the bishops of the Church.
          18. Jesus promised to be with us always. He does not abandon us, but He sent His Holy Spirit to guide and direct us and the Church.
          19. This is all part of the Covenant Jesus made at the cross.
          20. Jesus made a number of parables in which a man goes away and leaves a steward in charge. This is no coincidence. Jesus went away and left a steward in charge.
          21. To reject the Church is to reject Jesus. To reject the Pope then is to reject the one He put in charge.

          After reading the above 21 statements, I was wondering if you disagree with anything and if you do then upon what religious authority are your disagreements valid?

          Your brother in Christ,

          Eric

  18. Posted May 10, 2012 at 11:45 am | Permalink

    Nine out of our 15 children just finished listening to this unfortunate view on children–they don’t believe they are “liabilities”, and neither do we!

    Is God true, or isn’t He? He loves people, and all people just happen to be *children*! In God’s omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient Personhood, there is always room, always ability to provide! And even if we should struggle, or go through times when we may even suffer a few “wants”–children are still a blessing–God’s Word still stands, and that is His WHOLE counsel, not just a few isolated verses.

    How can someone claim to be a Christian, someone who believes that God so loved the world (that includes all of our billions, even those coming from large families) and yet that God would be displeased if we opened our lives to more children? This is not a minor dichotomy!

  19. Dan Rodriguez
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 1:32 am | Permalink

    Jennifer, both of your posts were very well said and I agree with you entirely. Thank you. -Dan

    • Eric
      Posted May 14, 2012 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Hi Dan! Unfortunately, Jennifer’s posts are not entirely consistent with 2000 years of Christianity, history, and the Church’s teachings but instead based on personal opinions and assumptions derived from information that seems to contain some truth at best, but not the fullness of the truth. This is another example as to why there are over 33,820 different Christian churches that are borrowing some truth from the (catholic) Church, who alone has the fullness of the truth, resulting in no need to borrow anything in return. Copies of the Scriptures existing outside of the (catholic) Church are partly incorrect and partly defective, and that whatever in them is true, is true because derived from Christ’s (universal or catholic) Church who alone possesses the Bible in its fullness and its truth. Any Bible used outside the (catholic) Church is only being borrowed and interpreted with child-like confidence. Mis-interpretation of the Bible has created 33,820 different “Christian” churches started by random men resulting in Non-Denominational and Protestant chaos. (Protestant = to protest the (catholic) Church).

  20. Michael Payne
    Posted May 12, 2012 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

    Greetings! Calling children a liability is wicked when God calls them a gift. Adam smith in his book the wealth of nations said that the greatest way to have wealth is to have as many children as you can. Today, that is the surest way to bankruptcy. Why? We treat children like socialists/freeloaders for the first eighteen years of their life. Fortunately, many homeschooling families are going back to a decentralized family economy. It is interesting that the Bible tells us that debt is a curse and children are a blessing, and most Christians are applying for curses and rejecting blessings. Sadly, I fell for this foolishness and killed many of my own children through BC. I would even argue why are we postponing children? Don’t we want blessings? Or do we have a problem believing? Who told you that you need all this nonsense to have children? Why can’t ten children live in a small house, as in the case of Patrick Henry and many others. How many of you would have loved to have Daddy and Mommy instead of there monetary gifts. Providing is necessary; however, were are we getting our definitions, The Bible or the culture? Also, God tells us to not lean on our own understanding, but to trust Him Prov 3:5-6. We must reject pragmatism and believe. God has given us His Word. God bless all those that Love the Lord Jesus Christ!

  21. George
    Posted May 21, 2012 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

    Did you all hear the part where Chuck said he loved the liabilities, or the part where Don said that in one point they may be a liability but they are a cherished asset. I can understand where some would find this text confusing without listening to the ENTIRE segment. He was comparing the two cultures of the past verses present. It was clear they were advising the woman to talk to her husband, (and this goes for all) pray to God and seek His will. The 1 Timothy passage was spot on. You can’t get around the fact of it. If we can’t take care of our family, shame on us. It goes for all sorts of scenarios. I can’t pay the light bill but I go out to the movies once a week,( the movies we know can get expensive) or always eat out, I am living outside my means. Same goes with children, to have lots of kids and not be able to provide for them, is a sin. I respectfully disagree with a number of points regarding this article and would encourage Bryan that if he has a problem with what Chuck said to call him up and discuss it, like the bible calls us to do.

    Liability is a very negitive word. By listening to the segment it was clear Chuck does not think all Children are a liability, but in context, what is the opposite of asset, liability. Chuck’s words could have been said different in my opinion, but when on a live show with a certain time limit to answer questions, people choose words that may make the answer more confusing. To know anything about Chuck Smith is to know that he loves all people. To take one thing and dismiss his entire ministry as some of you seem to be doing is wrong. Like none of you have said anything that was mis-interpreted.

    One last point. I do not always agree with what is said on Pastor’s Perspective, like I don’t always agree with what Bryan says, but love covers a multitude of sins. I am not saying that everytime I disagree I think the other person is sinning. Just remember that we all have opinions, they are like armpits, they all stink. Healthy discussion is great.

    God bless you all

    • Eric
      Posted May 30, 2012 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

      Hi George! Yes, Chuck Smith has taught some truth. But since his bible is only 90% complete with 66 books then he is unable to teach the fullness of the truth. Also, “these questions below are impossible for a believer in sola scriptura who attends Calvary Chapel to answer, since no verse or combination of verses in Scripture provides the required information.

      Provide the verse(s) which:

      Say(s) God created the world/universe out of nothing,
      Say(s) Scripture is the sole authority (i.e., there is no other authority for learning about God and/or salvation),
      Say(s) salvation is attainable through faith alone,
      Tell(s) us how we know that the revelation of Jesus Christ ended with the death of the last Apostle,
      Provide(s) a list of the canonical books of the Old Testament,
      Provide(s) a list of the canonical books of the New Testament,
      Explain(s) the doctrine of the Trinity,
      Tell(s) us the name of the “beloved disciple”,
      Contain(s) the name of the author of the Gospel of Matthew,
      Contain(s) the name of the author of the Gospel of Mark,
      Contain(s) the name of the author of the Gospel of Luke,
      Contain(s) the name of the author of the Gospel of John,
      Contain(s) the name of the author of the Acts of the Apostles,
      Tell(s) us the Holy Spirit is one of the three Persons of the Trinity,
      Tell(s) us Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man from the moment of conception (e.g. how do we know His Divinity wasn’t infused later in His life?) and/or tells us Jesus Christ is One Person with two complete natures, human and Divine and not some other combination of the two natures (i.e., one or both being less than complete),
      Tell(s) us Jesus Christ is of the same substance of Divinity as God the Father.” source: catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/Protstnt.htm

    • Chuck
      Posted October 28, 2012 at 2:22 am | Permalink

      You can try to put a happy face on it but putting Children and Liability in the same sentence will never be right and it will never be the Christian thing to say. The Evangelical/Protestant church is slowly slipping into the dictatorship of relativism. Where in the Bible does it say go forth and have sex, contracept and accumulate material things?

  22. Peter
    Posted December 11, 2012 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

    For all of you that are viewing Pastor Chuck Smith in a negative light over a comment on his radio program, I wonder how many of you that are quoting bible verses are true followers of Jesus. I know this man and what love he has for children! You are taking a comment he stated out of context when you claim that his sound byte of “children are a liability,” to mean he is pro-choice! You couldn’t be further from the truth.

    Look,Pastor Chuck is speaking from a biblical truth about during that time, children and their parents spent a lot of time together even through their adult years, and they contributed with their work towards the family finances as well as anything else to keep the family clothed, fed and in a place to live. He was giving a comparison of the children today who rarely live at home past 18, and while under their parents roof, could not care less about helping their parents.

    Those of you who want to point your fingers at an honorable man of God should remember two things. First, go back and listen again considering his biblical viewpoint, then realize what he ACTUALLY meant. Secondly, he has given the majority of his life to help people escape certain eternity in hell. If you’ve received salvation in the finished work of Jesus’ death, burial, and resurrection on the cross – be thankful that someone like him introduced you to Jesus!

    Lastly, no devoted follower of Jesus is okay with children being aborted – period! Don’t criticize what you don’t understand. Questions are always good, but judgment on anyone is always a poor choice.

    God bless you all!

  23. Jessica
    Posted November 11, 2013 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    I knew Pastor Chuck. He was my pastor since I started attending church 25 years ago.

    I know he may have made a mistake by what he said but I think the good he did (in my heart alone) and the thousands I’ve witnessed over the many years I attended his church outweighs this one comment. This one thing does not sum up his life.

    If you we’re around him you could feel the Holy Spirit pouring out of him.

    Thousands , if not millions have been led to Christ by Pastor Chuck, who was a very Godly man who still at times made human mistakes.

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